How bad of an idea is this?

"for Michigan" (formichigan) 06/13/2019 at 17:53 • Filed to: Volvo, v50, wagon

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2010 Volvo V50 T5 R-Design AWD. 6-speed stick. 133000 miles. One owner. Current maintenance. Asking price seems a little high at $9500, but there aren’t exactly many comparable cars listed on AutoTrader.

I’m in good shape with financing on the 1-series, so I could trade that in on this plus a little cash and still lower my monthly payment on a short-term loan. And then I’d have a stick-shift, AWD wagon instead of an automatic coupe. Sounds like a win-win to me.

The only thing that has me hesitating is buying a high-mileage, decade-old, turbocharged Volvo. But the maintenance can’t be any worse than a contemporary BMW, right?

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 17:59

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Paging PotentialHeapOwner...

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:02

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Do it! Manual, AWD, stick shift, it's basically a WRX, but better!

dogisbadob > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:04

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The problem is that they’re expensive to fix and not great cars. The gas mileage also sucks.

You might like teh HHR SS. It’s jsut a Cobalt wagon, right? And kinda cool. The non-SS was also available with manual. You could also get a manual Saturn L-series wagon and swapping in the 2.0T from the Cobalt/HHR SS and many other cars since then.

Or maybe a Focus wagon with a turbo swap (they were available with the Mazda 2.3L in the last few years)

It might even be better to manual swap a TSX wagon (which was auto-only)

The Matrix/Vibe was available with AWD, but auto-only. Perhaps a manual swap might be feasible.

Future next gen S2000 owner > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:06

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You could do worse. V60 is better though.

for Michigan > Future next gen S2000 owner 06/13/2019 at 18:12

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V60 is bigger and bigger is not what I’m looking for.

for Michigan > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/13/2019 at 18:12

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I’ve been following his posts and haven’t been deterred yet.

for Michigan > dogisbadob 06/13/2019 at 18:17

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Explain why they aren’t great.

Gas mileage is no worse than my current daily, which is a BMW, so also expensive to fix.

Contemporary reviews were favorable. I owned a Mazda3 built on the same platform and loved it. This adds a 6th gear, AWD, more power, and a nicer interior which addresses everything I would have changed about my car.

I have a hard time believing an HHR or MkI Focus would be better than a V50.

I can perhaps see the argument for the TSX, Vibe, or Matrix, but I’m not interested in manual-swapping a daily driver.

gmctavish needs more space > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:21

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The miles aren’t crazy high, but not super low either. The price is high though.  I think that would’ve been due for a timing belt at 120k, and the pcv system should’ve been looked at by now. As far as I know, those are the main things to worry about.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > dogisbadob 06/13/2019 at 18:26

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We owned a 2010 HHR LS, and the drivetrain on the SS would probably have helped a lot. The electric power steering and lock to lock steering were boatlike, but it rode ok, and our 2010 had TPMS actual PSI monitors, to boot. My wife liked it a lot but even used it depreciated like a stone. It was a little weird, the battery was under the trunk floor, and there was a lot of road noise, and the door handles are a flimsy easy break plastic, but it drove ok for a regular car.

I like that Volvo but it seems like a lot of miles on a modern one. The old bulletproof 240 form back when,  I don’t know if that record was kept by the model successors.

for Michigan > gmctavish needs more space 06/13/2019 at 18:26

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Yeah, if you look at it as miles/year i t’s actually on the low side of average, which to my mind is good when taken with the CarFax report because it’s been driven and maintained rather than left to rot. And CarFax does show that the timing belt and water pump were done at 120K. No mention of the PCV system though.

dogisbadob > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:27

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Fair enough about the Volvo vs BMW

I was considering a V50 wagon as my next car because of the manual wagon, but they don’t offer a basic 4-cylinder, only a thirsty I5, or an even thirstier turbo! And I’ve never seen a FWD available even though I know they were offered that way. We need more wagons with good mileage.

Some people might not like the non-replaceable radio on the V50. If you want to upgrade to Bluetooth or anything, you can’t! Crtuchfield says it’s not possible :(

Volvo doesn’t use a valve cover gasket for most of their cars. Just liquid shit.

I mean, you don’t have to manual-swap the daily driver. Keeping it auto would be fine, too. The TSX wagon will giv e much less problems to deal with. Plus, with VTE C, and maybe even Type R stickers, who needs a turbo? :p

Future Heap Owner > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:27

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Hey! As you might know, I have a very similar car: a 2005 V50 T5 AWD, with six speed manual (not an R design, tho). I got mine with 177k miles in late February for $5k from a private seller . I would rate the maintenance under both the previous owners as average: not great, but not terrible either. The seller didn’t provide much documentation on the maintenance he had done; just a print out of service notes from the dealer.   I don’t know what the depreciation curve looks like for these , but given that yours is about 2/3rds the age and mileage and (I’m guessing) is being sold by a dealer, $9500 doesn’t sound too far off the mark. I gather that it’s fairly difficult to find AWD models with a stick, at least for the regular ones (not sure if R design versions are more plentiful).

As for your other question: since purchasing it, I’ve put about 2.5k miles on it. I brought it in to a local independent Volvo shop for an oil change about a month ago (somewhat annoying to DIY on these, and I was very short on time), and they noted that the variable timing hubs for the camshafts were leaking oil. They said it’s driveable, but should be replaced soon. It’s gone through about 3/4 of a quart over 1k miles, so today I brought it back in to get the hubs, the camshaft seals, the timing belt & tensioner , and the water pump all replaced, which they’ve estimated at $2100 all in all . The seals were leaking along with the hubs, the timing belt had oil dripping right on it, and the documentation that I do have on the car doesn’t indicate that the tensioner or water pump have ever been replaced. I did get a PPI from a Volvo dealer in Seattle that RPM recommended, so the leak seems to have developed recently.

Oh, and I did have a no crank issue on the Spring Oppo Cruise due to a jammed steering column lock, but I’m pretty sure that by the 2010 model year Volvo got rid of that lock, so you won’t have to worry about that. I was able to resolve that with help from other o ppos and quality time with my dremel tool, so that didn’t land it in the shop.

Overall, I’m happy with the car, and unless another big maintenance issue pops up within the next year, I’m planning on keeping it for the foreseeable future. I find it very fun to drive: it corners super flat, the gearbox is pretty good, and it’s got enough pep for me to feel it pulling from ~2k all the way up to the redline near 7k RPM when I can let loose on an on-ramp. I generally prefer smaller vehicles, and this is just about the smallest vehicle I can get that still has enough room for me, my dog, two other people, and all our gear for a backpacking trip. If you have any other questions, let me know and I’ll do my best to answer them. If you go forward with this, I can tell you a few common issues to look for in the PPI / the service documentation.

Future Heap Owner > dogisbadob 06/13/2019 at 18:29

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If you want to upgrade to Bluetooth or anything, you can’t! Crtuchfield says it’s not possible

That’s not true. GROM has an adapter for it, though it ain’t cheap (about $350 with bluetooth). Or you can take the crazy person route like I’m doing, which is much cheaper, but more work and requires decent soldering skills.

Future Heap Owner > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:32

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My understanding is that rear wheel hubs are another common issue on the P1 platform ; might want to take a special look at those during the PPI if they haven’t been replaced (they were on mine).

for Michigan > dogisbadob 06/13/2019 at 18:33

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I told myself I would be fine with an auto for my daily when I bought my 1-series and here I am a year later seriously looking for something with a stick... 

The radio is less of a deal-breaker than the transmission. I didn’t like that I couldn’t upgrade the radio in my Mazda or my BMW, but I can live with it.

As far as gas-mileage goes, it’s going to see mostly highway miles so it’s not a big deal to me. If I was really concerned about mileage I’d be looking at used Priuses.

for Michigan > Future Heap Owner 06/13/2019 at 18:41

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I was hoping you would chime in! Thanks for the detailed rundown.

Your description sounds exactly like what I’m looking for to replace my 1-series. My last car was a Mazda3 hatchback and I just can’t deal with the lack of practicality in the BMW. I was tempted to replace it with a 3-series Touring, but it’s bigger than I really want. T he V50 has been on my radar for a while and this one popped up at just the right time.

Unfortunately, t he dealer’s website says sale pending.   I sent them an email anyway and if it works out I’ll go look at it Saturday.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:42

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So basically it’s a nicely app ointed AWD MS3? I guess if I had a reliable BMW 1 series I wouldn’t be itching to change it out for a potentially less reliable V50. But you know how these things go, get a PPI and see what lies beneath. 

for Michigan > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 06/13/2019 at 18:47

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Basically.

If my 1-series had a hatch and stick I wouldn’t be looking to replace it. It’s a great car and I’ve loved owning it, but the lack of practicality is driving me nuts and I miss driving a stick-shift car.

EL_ULY > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:48

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perfect car is perfect

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 18:50

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Do you have an absolute price ceiling? For a few grand more, the V60s are starting to come down into the ~12-13k range and are vastly superior (IMO) to the V50. 

for Michigan > EL_ULY 06/13/2019 at 18:52

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Compact, AWD, stick-shift wagons are too rare. More companies need to make them so I can buy them used a decade later. 

for Michigan > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 06/13/2019 at 18:53

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In that price range and size class I’d rather just get a stick-shift 328i Touring.

AWD, stick- shift, compact ha tchbacks are a very rare thing but also exactly what I want in a car . Don’t want a mid-sizer or a sedan . Already have a coupe and I hate it. Thought I could live with an auto and also hate that.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 19:02

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My new to me Datsun is a hatch back, maybe you should be looking at a 1982 Datsun 310GX.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 19:10

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Great looking car, those things have aged really well. Didn’t think they looked that great when new, but it’s much better today!

Agree with your views on reliability and maintenance costs - shouldn’t be much different from a BMW.

Definitely invest the $150 or so on a PPI from a good indy shop to make sure there’s nothing sketchy going on you can’t see, and if all turns out OK go from there. Worth every cent. 

Future Heap Owner > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 19:19

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Aw dang, I hope that sale doesn’t work out. Good luck, and keep us posted!

Future Heap Owner > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 19:22

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Sovande claims he can get 37 mpg from his T5 wagon on the freeway. Honestly, I don’t believe him. I get  27-28.

Future Heap Owner > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/13/2019 at 19:26

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Ahem, * Future*  Heap Owner

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Future Heap Owner 06/13/2019 at 19:27

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They almost mean the same thing in this context, when you think about it 

Future Heap Owner > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 06/13/2019 at 19:33

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I hope you’re not implying that all the hours I spend thinking of new adjectives to put in my Kinja handle isn’t time well spent.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Future Heap Owner 06/13/2019 at 19:40

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I don’t mean to imply anything

Though I may suggest 

AestheticsInMotion > for Michigan 06/13/2019 at 20:19

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I support the idea. Manual/awd is pretty rare and desirable , so worst-case you should have an easy time selling it if you end up wanting something else. Be sure to check out swedespeed.com for any maintainance-related questions or to chat with super knowledgeable owners

Future Heap Owner > Future Heap Owner 06/13/2019 at 20:25

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 maybe his is automatic, the auto does have a significantly lower final drive ratio (2.27 vs 3.77)

EL_ULY > for Michigan 06/14/2019 at 00:15

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Inde ed. As a former Volvo master tech, these were solid enough and not too bad to work on. The oil filter housing/crankcase ventilation is that main thing to watch. You dont even need a lift to replace it. Timing belt is a normal task. Engine mounts didn’t last too long. I think you needed the Volvo scan tool to do the rear brakes on top of the twisty press tool thing. That's it on those though. Rear camber is on the high side for a normal spec. They sell kits to fix that though. 

for Michigan > EL_ULY 06/14/2019 at 05:04

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Sounds like it shares some common problems with its C1/P1 platform mates. Thankfully I already have some experience with that.

cberg > for Michigan 07/06/2019 at 19:08

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I have no doubt the V60 is a better car, but the V50 gas mileage is actually awesome. In boost it’s terrible but in cruise control on highways it’s awesome.

I daily a 2006 with 20k more miles than this & it’s doing well.  Once you get one of these into working order it’s a very resilient car.